Sorry to say, I no longer care whether I stay at Marriott or otherwise.
The Bonvoy program is a poorly administered joke. I am Lifetime Titanium, and for that you get very little, and even that is inconsistently provided.
I can't tell you how many times I needed to follow up for points, never get any room upgrade of any significance, the Suite awards are basically useless, on and on.
A great hotel company and frequent guest program gone...
I'm with you brightlybob. Bonvoy is working out fine for me. Marriott Rewards was never perfect and neither is Bonvoy. Even so, I'm pleased with how I've fared since the merger.
Excellent analysis, Bob. My only disagreement is with your statement " credit card earning rates have actually decreased stateside. " CC earnings are up significantly, on our side of the pond. for general purchases, they have doubled. For Restaurants they are up 50% and for Marriott spending they are up 20%.
BTW for Marriott stays, charged to the Marriott Bonvoy CC, I get 23.5 points per dollar spent. Under the old plan, we got 21. That's no joke. SNAs do seem to be worthless. My SNAs will all expire in about 7 weeks, completely unused, despite several attempts to use them, Most hotels have offered to upgrade me without using my SNAs, and when I've tried to use any SNAs, I have been unsuccessful. I continue to be bewildered those who say they never get any meaningful upgrades. Looking back at the last half dozen years, I have received upgrades most of the time and suites at least a third of the time.
Oh, phctourist - well there’s certainly been a lot of moaning about credit card earnings decreasing, so maybe it’s only some cards. I can’t remember seeing anyone comment their credit card earnings had actually gone up (other than me and I accept here in England we are outliers with our pathetic Marriott Mastercard (1 point per £ general spends, 2 at Marrott) giving way to the far better SPG AMEX (3 points per £ general spends, 6 at Marriott)). It really does seem that people far prefer to whinge - mind you that’s fairly obvious with the threads both here and on Flyertalk
The new credit card is better than the old for earning points. (6x vs 5x at Marriott). Dining and travel (airlines, car rental, etc.) were 2x on the old card and everything else was 1x. Now all non-Marriott spend is 2x. Definitely an improvement.
The 1 night per $3000 spend is gone, but at LTT, the only need to add nights is to try for Annual choice benefits or Ambassador status. That last one is never gonna happen for me, so I'm happy with the extra points in exchange for giving up the CC nights.
Marriott chase card holders see increasing while SPG amex card holders see decreasing.
I heard that years ago some people used SPG amex card for every purchase because one SPG point is three marriott points. Now they only get 2 marriott points.
I cannot count the time I have read SNAs are worthless or not working out and never available. I find that a real disappointment with Marriott. Each of us had the choice to do something different with our bonus and for those of us that chose SNAs we lost big....I had two years worth and decided to use them for the SNAs and I feel that If Marriott cannot deliver on their promise we shouild be able to maintain our SNAs until such is satisfied. I have tried every where we go to get a SNA upgrade and to date that has not happened. In December it's over and that feel like Marriott stole from me and I have no say so in the matter. I know for a fact for two of those opportunities there were available suites but they said otherwise. There really should be a complaint department that can double check this when hotels say they don't have SNAs when they actually do and there should be some sort of repercussions.. checks and balances to ensure customers aren't getting the sham.....
I'm sure one day my SNA requests will be denied, but thus far I am 100%, and have received the highest room type (Suite) selected each time for the 3 (or 4) SNAs requested. I have another SNA pending for next week, and I fully expect that SNA request to be granted (only because it is a location I've been to a few times and I'm treated very well there) - the only way I'd expect it not to be granted is if the hotel is full and I end up checking in late.
You don't get much in US and Europe properties but you can try visiting big cities in Asia. Normally you get generous upgrade , excellent breakfast and lounges there. The standard suite is often offered without being asked so there isn't much chance to use SNA. Sometimes you get top level premium suites if SNA do get accepted.
Generally you get no more than you paid in US and EU and a lot more in Asia.
I do generally agree with your remarks concerning USA although my last few USA stays have seen me score Woodlands Marriott (3 nights) Club balcony upgrade, Katy CY (2 nights) None, Disneyworld Sheraton Dolphin (14 nights) Suite upgrade, so it’s been pretty good. Over my lifetime of maybe 20 US/Canada stays I’d guess I’m upgraded most of the time but suites have been just twice which at 10% runs similar to my European experience. Lounges however in the USA are a pretty parsimonious affair and mostly shut at weekends which compares badly to both Europe and Asia where lounges typically include 2-6 hours of free alcohol (beer and wine in Europe, full bar in Asia) and wide ranging food capable of serving as a meal. Undoubtably Marriott provides a better elite experience outside USA but that’s probably a reflection of the fact it’s a much more upmarket brand around the globe (with hence a greater variety of rooms and suites) and of course fewer elites chasing those better upgrade opportunities.
What in the heck did he say? "parsimonious"
It means “miserly” in posh English!
Stepped in what?
Posh = acronym referring to ocean voyages between the UK and India where the most expensive cabins were those with a landward view during the journey, which would be on the Port side going out to India and the Starboard side on the way back hence Port Out Starboard Home was the POSH way to travel, referring to the wealthy or well educated who would arrange their cabins thusly...
Why thank you kind Sir, and I do mean SIR!
I guess the modern equivalent would be seat 1A or 1F.
Stepped in a poody - Texan derived quotation that a certain former ATC who shall remain nameless reassuredly advises me literally translated is “stepping out in my poody” with poody being reference to well-regarded footwear...
Hence “Ah stepped in a poody” means “Please have regard to my remarkably fashionable footwear”. I was sporting some very relaxed brogues during Tipple-the-first and used the phrase regularly and whenever I said it people did look straight down at my brown brogues albeit usually with a grimace, it seems Texans don't appreciate brown brogues!
I’m sorry you feel this way.
I’ve reached Titanium for the first time this year and my experience has been vastly different than yours. I’ve been upgraded every stay. Never had to follow up for missing points. Love the free breakfast. My last stay in October was on points. Not only was I upgraded to the best available room ( corner unit, top floor) but when I got there, an appreciative note thanking me for my loyalty along with a nice bottle of wine awaited.
My stays are all leisure based and unfortunately I won’t qualify for Titanium next year. I’d kill for Lifetime Titanium!
Bye
As a former SPGer, I've been generally OK with BONVOY.
The one downgrade that I particularly feel is the poor offer of points for Green Choice/Go Green. I do think skipping housekeeping is worth more to the hotel than the 250 pts that some properties offer. But I'll take what I can get.
I have noticed that most of the time when I complain about a significantly difficult situation and it reaches the manager I do get extra points in compensation.
I've started learning which properties really are interested providing hospitality, and I've made the choice to stay with them when I have the option.
I do understand your frustration, but, personally I have been treated quite well with Marriott. Forget the Bonvoy (Rewards) name, as I could care less what they call it. I just like knowing as a Marriott loyal member that is entitled to certain recognition and benefit that I have the opportunity to receive them along with appropriate points for future use. I have been upgraded from time to time, had access to concierge lounges in different locations and take advantage of free nights where possible. In almost all locations, I have found the staff to be respectful and helpful. Regardless of where you do you business, we only can hope that our expectations and actual results come close to matching up.
For me, I have enjoyed nearly a $5K value in free redemption stays so far this year and have another 11 night redemptions before the end of the year...to me, that is real value. Over 30-nights of free room with Breakfast for my wife and I each year. Granted, that means I also pay for about 170 nights a year to get the kind of points I need to redeem for stays. But I also used 15 SNAs this past year (5 from 2018 and 10 in 2019). They're all used up now, but I really enjoyed using them for some great upgrades, valued anywhere from $500 a night to $1,500 a night in value. Although Hilton and IHG and Hyatt also offer free nights and upgrade, for me they just don't add up to the equivalent number of nights in Marriott because of their lower program earnings including multipliers/bonuses/promotions, higher redemption costs of a room, black-out dates, availability of property in a location I visit, etc. Marriott ticks enough boxes for my situation that I'll be sticking with them for the long-haul.
No program is perfect and each traveler must decide for themselves what fits best. For some, that might be Hilton or IHG. If so, that's great. I wish prp928 all the best in the other programs.
I'm glad to hear that you were able to use your SNAs....you are the first person I heard say they have used them ALL.
Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out! Just another gone so the rest of us are able to enjoy more benefits with one less in the pond. SEEYA
Personally, I am frustrated. I generally book at lower end rural properties and I get upgraded almost every time. BUT, I have also had to chase my points almost every single time this year. This is very frustrating and time consuming. I am currently Titanium Elite with Marriott but I also have status with Hyatt and IHG. I have NEVER had to chase points with Hyatt and IHG. I keep giving Marriott the benefit of the doubt and keep trying but honestly the lack of points posting correctly is beginning to grow extremely tiresome. I just hit 50 nights for the year with Marriott. I won't make 75 nights this year and I doubt I will bother with Marriott for the rest of the year except for the Thanksgiving weekend I already have booked. I do need to book 5 nights over Christmas but I think IHG will get that booking again this year. Today, I am chasing 4,000 points from a recent stay in SLC. I booked a 2,000 point bonus stay room, verified at check-in and again at check out. It didn't post. This room, while upgraded, had many maintenance issues: non working refrigerator, shower head, clock. We were promised 2,000 points for the inconvenience. Never posted. This hotel also charged a parking fee that is never mentioned on the website. Another recent stay, I booked a package that included tour tickets to a local brewery. I did not get the tickets on check-in or any time during my stay. I politely talked with the front desk, weekend manager, morning office manager. Apologies and promises made. 6 weeks later, none of the promises had been kept, including the paid for package tickets. I stayed polite and contacted the hotel via email multiple times but honestly it should not be that hard. I am a former business owner. I get that mistakes happen. I just know from my own experiences, when I screwed up, I apologized, rectified the situation ASAP and learned from my mistakes making needed improvements. Just my 2 cents.
And, forgot to mention.....just home from a stay last night across town and before I arrived and checked email this morning at home our bill had been emailed. I have no real complaints for Bonvoy, if I did the benefits would clearly overcome the pitfalls.
Can’t agree more. One of the associate helped me merge my account and kept the wrong account number. I called them, wrote them emails, wrote posts in this blog and until now, no one helped me solve the problem. Can’t believe that almost 10 days passed, I still don’t get my account back or any points to make up my loss. Their poor service makes me feel disappointed.
I’m in the minority, but I’ve earned in excess of 600,000 points year-to-date. Credit cards, bonuses, promotions, elite bonus of 75% for titanium, and 126 nights in Marriott branded beds adds up big time. I’ll be spending those points on fabulous vacation hotels in Europe. Bonvoy works for me!
I think like most things, its your expectations and your personal needs. For me, the only real disappointment is the free breakfast benefit when staying at certain hotels. I'm generally traveling with my family (spouse and 2 kids) and the benefit is only for 2 people. That makes it a non-starter for me.
My response is to re-route my stays to hotels with lounges which allow access to my whole family.
I dont think Bonvoy s perfect but I stay at Marriotts because I like the Standard of the Hotel and the staff, so being LTT with Ambassador ( which seems to improved considerable lately ) I look at the benefits as a bonus, it great to Turn up at the JW in Cancun recently and be told "Oh we have upgraded you to a Suite" and the little things like, fruit, water, chocolates that appear in the room are always appreciated. I stayed at the Moxy in Heathrow a few weeks ago where they even had dedicated Graffiti on a mirror thanking me for my loyalty
Oh that mirror one is awesomeness at its peak! - Curious though - who cleaned off the mirror after you thank them ?
Certainly been issues and hiccups since the merger, we can all attest to that. In general the last 6-12 months have been a bit cleaner, I haven't had to email or call about any missing stays or points, which I had to do semi- frequently in years past. So that's a relief.
I mostly travel for work so upgrades haven't been an issue or desire, but I have gotten some here and there at RI's or Elements to bigger suites, which has been cool to give me more space to relax after customer visits.
We did just return from a fantastic weekend in JW Marriott Camelback Inn in Scottsdale, we got upgraded to a lovely Sonoran 1br suite with living room and a bathroom so big you could drive a truck through it. Was really a treat and made the stay even more enjoyable with a toddler running around. We booked on points and requested the SNA upgrades and received it. Very surprised and appreciated. Really a phenomenal property, great staff, great food and restaurant options, huge 100+ acre property with big pools and a gym. The larger upgrade room made it a total 5 star stay. Will definitely go back and try to use my annual cert there and SNA's.
Overall things have smoothed out with Bonvoy, I travel about bi-weekly for work, and very few hiccups in 2019. If anything, the west coast business trips at Marriott properties have been busier than ever. Some of my favorites now are hard to get a room at, or below a ridiculous inflated price due to demand. So my personal eyeball tests tell me Bonvoy is not hurting much these days.
I am a lifetime titanium too. I think some of the above comments are correct with regard to expectations. The Bonvoy growing pains seem to be leveling out. However I am batting about 10% on the SNA's and for the most part they offer an upgrade to a king or larger room w/ 2 queens, no suites which was the norm before merger. I am guessing w/ the combined memberships suites will be harder to get. There has been little recognition of status but "If I wanted applause I would have joined the circus".
Nicely said donethat
I have 2 issues, 1 are the promotions seem to keep getting worse. Yeah, they are free points, but they make it fun as well. The 2nd is the SNA implementation. It is a great concept, however many properties hold back the best rooms, to the point that they will let you pay for the suite but not accept an SNA or give a LTT upgrade. In addition people have reported that the SNA was approved and plans changed, then the property refused to honor it. If that happens to me I will move from Marriott.
I think you nailed it - this is everything... The promotions are getting worse compared to the competition.
Not as bad for me as I did receive a 60K thank you. But still I calculate that I am earning about 30K less per promotion this year, so even with the 60K bump, I am less than other years.
Targeted promos are different and appear OK I think than the general mass promos they advertise for everyone.. despite I find Marriott have some decent points awards for stays compared to IHG & Hilton.. but I find both Hilton & IHG have more frequent promos and some good decent mega points to be gained.
Fake news post.
I have to disagree. I’ve stayed at fantastic properties in Italy, Philadelphia, Washington DC, NYC, Indianapolis, Denver, etc, etc all for free thanks to Marriott. Expense the work travel and points the play travel. Places I would otherwise hesitate paying cash rate for. With the footprint wherever I go there is a Marriott property for me. I am always thanked for my loyalty and treated well.
There is nothing perfect though, and that equally applies to the BONVOY program as well. So far, my SNAs were honoured with gorgeous suite. I attained the Ambassador status last week and I'm already experiencing positive reflections and recognition.
No doubt there is room for improvement in the BONVOY program and I think Marriott will certainly elevate it with some benefits in the future. I don't beleive that the BONVOY program has been conceptulaized as a static program.
I think it’s difficult to say the improvements are a joke, as a U.K.-based 75 night Marriotteer the merger has seen my Credit card points triple, my elite bonus increase by 17%, my welcome gift points double, the introduction of $10pppn credit at CYs and Moxys (amongst others), breakfast introduced across resorts, 4pm late checkouts, the introduction of SNAs, all of which have come through for me and the addition of a free night at 75 nights.
However the problem here is over promising and under delivering - anecdotally we see many complaints around SNAs which whilst never a promise of a suite upgrade are proving particularly unreliable stateside, some hotels are messing around with the $10pppn benefit and the 4pm checkout, and credit card earning rates have actually decreased stateside. And of course some particularly desirable Starwood and Marriott properties have seen 30% to 50% increase in redemption costs, a handful even 100%. And let’s not mention the IT woes which hopefully are now behind us.
I personally have been exposed only to a few of the negatives and many, many positives - but if you’ve hit every branch of the “Bonvoyed” tree as you fall I can easily see why you would feel dejected...